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Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species (Read 3861 times)
Michael Echt
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Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Jul 24th, 2022 at 12:11pm
 
Does anyone have any clarification on what is and is not allowed with the Brazilian killifish species on their red list. Other non-killis such as Hyphessobrycon flammeus are regularly available in the US and also listed on the Red List. Is it only the import of these species that is banned? Is it the sale or distribution that is also banned? How about the keeping on species that were obtained prior to any ban?

If keeping and distributing of these species is banned in the US, why is it that other Brazilian red listed fish (non-killis) are offered for sale?

Thanks in advance!
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Tyrone Genade
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #1 - Jul 25th, 2022 at 11:33am
 
Hello Michael,

Honestly, I really don't know. I still see Brazil SAAs for sale on Wetspot, Dan's Fish etc... never mind the other Brazil species.

I think we in the AKA drew flack on account of people smuggling the Brazil killies out of Brazil into the USA where there are legal treaties with Brazil. We were told that there were no legal exports of Brazil killies (ever!) and so any trade in them is illegal under the Lacey Act. We (the AKA) don't have the finances to consult a lawyer on this and what counsel we did have suggested we not talk to USFW without a lawyer so that was that. USFW was serious enough to confiscate fish we imported from Holland last year which were "species of Brazil" even though they had Ecuador collecting designations (but I write under correction here as it was never made explicit what the problem was).

The AKA can't afford to defend itself so its policy is to avoid conflict with USFW and hold the position that no Brazil SAAs will be exhibited at shows or traded via the BNL or AKA run webpage.  This may seem paranoid but up until last year there was a USFW document explaining who needs and import permit and who doesn't wherein it was explicitly stated that killifish were an exception to the 7-items rule. That PDF vanished and when I pressed USFW agents on this they were insistent that anything more than 7 Notho eggs would need an import permit.

A USFW agent is speaking at the convention on this matter and we hope some answers will be had there.

The Lacey act might be coming up for review so don't get rid of your Brazil SAAs. We may yet be able to keep them opening again but we will likely never be able to import them again. We have to conserve what we do have.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

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Michael Echt
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2022 at 12:22pm
 
Hi Tyrone,

Thank you for the detailed response!!! The issue has been nagging me for quite some time, and seeing "banned" killifish listed publicly is exactly what has gotten me questioning whether the AKA might have gotten it wrong.

I guess the "no legal exports of Brazilian killifish ever" presents a hurdle, but I find that hard to believe. Looking back at old aquarium literature prior to these lists of threatened species, many aquarium exports were neither banned nor allowed. These were just not regulated. It would be interesting to speak with people who imported/exported from Brazil in the 80's and 90's.

And what of the species that were added later? I looked back at the 2004 list and of course it does not include Hyspolebias carlettoi. Sure, it might not have been described at the time the list was written, but does that mean an export of it would have been banned?

My hope would be that the trade of those species which have existed in the hobby since prior to 2004 (which is the earliest date I can find for a red list of fish from Brazil) would still be allowed. Perhaps that is what these retailers know already and why they are now listing them....

I too plan to ask questions of the person from USFW at the convention. It would be a shame if a crackdown of illegal exports of killifish lead to them disappearing from the US hobby entirely.
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April Ryan
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:00pm
 
I wasn't able to attend the convention. Did we get any clarification on this topic? Thanks!
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Tyrone Genade
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #4 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 1:05pm
 
I have been told by John Chapek that he was told by USFW that we can keep and breed Brazil SAAs but they can't cross state lines.
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Tyrone Genade
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2022 at 1:54pm
 
Tyrone Genade wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 1:05pm:
I have been told by John Chapek that he was told by USFW that we can keep and breed Brazil SAAs but they can't cross state lines.


This has been disputed by another member. I have emailed FWS directly to clarify the situation and put their formal position in writing for us.
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Pat Kapsner
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 6:21am
 
Tyrone,

Did you ever get a response from USFWS? It'd be interesting to hear what they say about it.
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Tyrone Genade
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2023 at 10:45am
 
No. I am going to bug them again when I have a chance.

We should all start bugging USFWS, and our Reps in DC, until they give us a written answer.
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Pat Kapsner
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2023 at 11:59am
 
One of the problems with USFWS you may run into is that each Agent or Inspector you talk to may have their own interpretation/understanding of laws, rules, regulations and even definitions. It can be difficult to get a straight answer out of these folks at times.

The USFWS Inspector I talked to this morning said that, based on his own interpretation of interchanges he's had with Brazilian government officials and his own understanding of their laws it's illegal for anyone in THIS country to own any fish whose species originally comes from Brazil. He got a little upset when I reminded him he was a United States law enforcement agent, not a Brazilian one and that he should concentrate on enforcing our own laws, not those of other nations.

More to come on this I'm sure.
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Carlos Pereyra
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Re: Clarification on Banned Brazillian Species
Reply #9 - Apr 22nd, 2023 at 12:39pm
 
I have a follow up question to this topic. For Convention it states that Brazilian killis are prohibited from being shown but that you can enter fish found in Brazil and neighboring countries as long as the neighboring country doesn’t prohibit the fish and it has a valid location. Why is this so vague? Which are the neighboring countries that also have prohibition on the fish?
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